300 and the diss-Persian Army
March 22nd 2007 20:43
Thermopylae. 480BC. 300 Spartans, perhaps the most fierce warrior culture ever to walk the earth, joined with their allies to stand up and defend their land against the invading hordes of the Persian Empire, numbering in their hundreds of thousands.
It’s ancient history, yes, but thrown back into modern popular culture by the new film ‘300’, based on the Frank Miller graphic novel of the same name.
The genius of the Spartan defense was to choose a narrow mountain pass as the spot to fight their battle, forcing the Persians to come through the bottleneck almost in single file. In this manner they managed to stand their ground and defeat an army outnumbering them 200:1.
A fantastic tale. But now the film’s release has sparked a ferocious backlash from the Iranians, claiming that “the Greeks-vs-Persians action flick insults their ancient culture and provokes animosity against Iran.
“Hollywood declares war on Iranians,” blared a headline in Tuesday’s edition of the independent Ayende-No newspaper.”
The Iranians say the film depicts their Persian ancestors as “decadent, sexually flamboyant and evil in contrast to the noble Greeks.
“The film depicts Iranians as demons, without culture, feeling or humanity, who think of nothing except attacking other nations and killing people,” Ayende-No said in its article Tuesday.
Hmmm… yes… and Alexander the Great wasn’t of questionable sexuality, Passion of the Christ was anti-semitic, and while we’re at it, there was nothing suss going on with JFK’s assassination.
Oh, and let’s not forget every American film that ever painted Russians in a negative light.
What you believe about any of these topics is largely irrelevant. The fact remains that we are talking about films. A form of entertainment.
When will people get the fact that films are not historical representations of fact? You want facts? Watch a documentary, don’t pick up the extended edition of “The Da Vinci Code”.
The filmmaker’s ability to suspend the viewer’s disbelief must have obviously hit exceptional heights with these tales, because everyone seems to forget that they are meant as entertainment, not historical documents.
Every nation is going to paint it’s own history and ancestors in a positive light – in a way, it is their prerogative to do so. Nothing wrong with a little national pride.
But what the hell do the Americans have to gain by singing the praises of the Greeks?
And the icing on the cake is that the film isn’t even based on a factual account of the events (as factual as they can be given that they are 2500 years old and prone to hyperbole). It is based upon a graphic novel (a comic!), which was in turn based on actual events.
A good bad guy is always gonna be evil – even if exaggeratedly so – in fact the more over the top the better. It makes their defeat onscreen all the more sweet.
As a storyteller - it makes me mad that a good story needs to be marred with fact if it is not my intention to be factual.
Somebody tell me I’m not the only one with this pet hate?
IT’S MOVIE PEOPLE. A MOVIE!!
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Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
But yes, use movies to learn about history and you're a dill.
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by Ahmed
techy.Bytes
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It is a movie, but it's a right wing movie, no secrets there, honestly I don't care, people are idiots if they let movies convince them one way or another, odds are it will (sadly)...
Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
So you'd leave your small children in the wild for days at a time on their own to fend for themselves? That's how the Spartans used to determine who was worthy..
;o)
Ahmed
Exactly.
Comment by Julie Vaux
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Have you read Herodotus' history?
The story there is quite dramatic enuff and filmable without Miller's alterations!
Like really Persian Orcs?
Xerxes looking like some kind of bondage queen!
And lets not forget the movie SOO TOTALLY overlooking the irony of the Spartans who were oligarchic thugs who overrun and enslaved their neighbours the Messenians and spied Stalin style on their serfs defending Hellenic independence!
And the biggest irony of all that might have also made a truly GREAT movie ... a small group of anti urban manly righteous macho tribal warriors from a moutainous area standing up against an "EVIL EMPIRE Of Decadent **sterners with superior forces".
Gee this movie could be a hit in Afghanistan?
If anyone wants to read Herodotus's (?better?) version you can get a FREE downlaod from Project Gutenberg or the Internet Classics Archives.
Wikipedia's page on Herodotus lists the various translations available !
I'ld rather see a movie that 's more authentic thank you !
Especially when its inspired by REAL events!
Comment by Julie Vaux
Books Well Read
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I have a Classics degree and have read Herodotus in Greek and Various Englsih translations!
Have you yoda76 ???
There are some great filmable stories therein!!!
Comment by Ahmed
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Comment by Nina
Were the Persians really orc-looking people? Of course not! But the whole thing is a stylised version, and is a fictional story with some elements of a real-life event. Anyone who goes to this movie looking for a historical account is just delusional. Other accounts of the actual story have been made, such as 1962's 'The 300 Spartans.' This movie fits an entirely different market segment to that film.
Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
Facts spoil a story?
Nope - but don't let them get in the way is my point. I know that Ancient History contains many many fantastic stories - no debate.
But you are missing my point.
It is a filmmaker's choice to make the film they want to make - regardless of historical accuracy. Frank Miller never said he was being accurate in his graphic novel, he put his spin on a story, as I'm sure has happened countless times in historical texts also - The New Testament anyone??
I'ld rather see a movie that 's more authentic thank you !
And that's your prerogative - to see what you like, and not see what you don't like. So why do we need to criticise? If you want a factual account, see something else.
Baz Luhrmann's Romeo and Juliet was hardly faithful to the original settings etc, but spun in a new and interesting way. I understand it isn't a 'factual' text to begin with, but it is one of the best films I have ever seen.
Would I pass that up just because it wasn't accurate? Not on your life.
And also, there is an art to telling a story on-screen, and often, no matter how faithful you are to the source, some changes need to be made so that the story works within the confines of film grammar.
I have a Classics degree and have read Herodotus in Greek and Various Englsih translations!
Have you yoda76 ???
No, but I have one in filmmaking - have you?
Thanks for the visit - and the great debate!
Nina
Great to see you!
You obviously get what I am trying to say.
Spot-on.
The Geek Speak has been very muted lately... what gives?
Comment by Nina
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Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
I think you've got a great little idea for a short film on your hands there...
Imagine Nemo sitting around doing an interview, puffing on a cigar, speaking with a husky voice: "Yeah I did all my own stunts in the movie, but the working conditions were horrible..."
Comment by AnthonyB
This is absolutely ridiculous. I don't think a film should be racist for the sake of it. That's to the detriment of a multi-cultural, cohesive society, but this a story and should be treated as such.
Thanks for letting me vent;
Anthony
Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
Comment by Ahmed
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Especially when taken within context it is from the perspective of them Spartans hence there will be an obvious skew and bias against the big bad persians.
Comment by scholia
In which case try looking at it from this angle - think of ALL those poor unhappy disappointed Classicists and Ancient Historians who saw a beloved story that was quite Dramatic and Filmable WITHOUT the GRRR "Additions" taken and abused and twisted into some ridiculous macho fantasy full of inaccuracies.
I've seen episodes of XENA that are more respectful in a wierdly playful parodic way to the ancient mythologies and that show was always tongue firmly planted in cheek!!!
Comment by Ahmed
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Heck, according to mainstream hollywood I'm a terrorist who can only speak broken English and hates 'the West' (I loved Wild, Wild West but thats another story
I'm not like that, I don't like movies that potray me as such but I live and let die without complaining, my reasoning is that anyone who is dumb enough to believe those movies as the real thing aren't looking for answers but were prejudiced to begin with.
In this case people who actually believe what they see in 300 as historical fact must have always had their views skewed and no amount of reality will sway them from their opinions.
Comment by Nina
Soon I take it none of you have ACTUALLY read Herodotus???
In which case try looking at it from this angle - think of ALL those poor unhappy disappointed Classicists and Ancient Historians who saw a beloved story that was quite Dramatic and Filmable WITHOUT the GRRR "Additions" taken and abused and twisted into some ridiculous macho fantasy full of inaccuracies.
I've seen episodes of XENA that are more respectful in a wierdly playful parodic way to the ancient mythologies and that show was always tongue firmly planted in cheek!!!
As I said in my first comment, this is not meant to be a portrayal of the battle of Thermopylae as told by Herodotus. Simply the way the film has been shot should be a solid indication that it is not being true to history. A (fairly) historically accurate movie has already been done; likely more will be made as the years go on. If this film claimed to be the truth of what happened, then yes, every historian should be up in arms. However, it is not, and I personally believe I can enjoy both this stylised version and the story as told by Herodotus.
Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
That'd make me an over-amorous slick-haired greaseball with Mafia connections.
Scholia,
My point is exactly that this film was not based upon Herodotus, but upon a comic-book adaptation of what's accepted as history.
It never pretended to be factual, and therefore should not be criticised for not being so.
I can understand the disappointment - but it's kind of unfounded in a way.
It's like saying that From Hell (another graphic novel turned film based on Jack The Ripper) was inaccurate. The FILMMAKERS (read: NOT HISTORIANS) set out to make an entertaining film, and in practising their art - just like any other artist - should be able to interpret as they like.
This post has many articles on the history vs fantasy thing, distilled:
If critics think that 300 reduces and simplifies the meaning of Thermopylae into freedom versus tyranny, they should reread carefully ancient accounts and then blame Herodotus, Plutarch, and Diodorus — who long ago boasted that Greek freedom was on trial against Persian autocracy, free men in superior fashion dying for their liberty, their enslaved enemies being whipped to enslave others.
and from Frank Miller himself:
Thanks for stopping by, Scholia - you always add fuel to a flickering fire
Comment by DuskDevi
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So shoot me...I'm guilty of wit and puns...can't add anything of value to this....no fuel....just drivel....
....yeah. It's not like it's reality TV or anything....
Seriously (I have my moments)...excellent piece and debate Yoda76.
...and see? No Yoda speak...I'm learning....but...slowly... incomplete my training is...not ready for the burden am I....
I'm going, I'm going...!